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diaryofanegress

Observations of an Invisible Woman

The Conversation We Need to Have

 

 

Given the recent shootings by white males, James Holmes and Wade Michael Page amongst others, it would seem that AmeriKlan is in desperate need of a long overdue conversation pertaining to white male anger. Many, like myself, may feel that white, Christian, heterosexual males have naught to be angry about but given the rise of hate groups and mass shootings, I would surmise the contrary.

If anyone in the world has the right to be ranting and screaming irate, it’s the black man. I sincerely doubt that anyone who is HONEST will say otherwise. Yet, even within the confines of unemployment, the prison system that beguiles him and the police that literally become wet with desire for a bullet to penetrate his flesh, he finds a way to persevere.

Why are white males so angry?

What’s wrong? What could be wrong? Why are whites itching for this “race war” and doing everything in their power to ignite the flames? And why are black/ brown/ red/ yellow people of all countries turning the other cheek? Why aren’t we giving in? What does this say about our morality Vs.  theirs? And why is NO ONE acknowledging that?

This is one conversation that I welcome ALL peoples of every colour, every religion, every walk of life, especially WHITE MALES, to join in. I’m asking you to tell us what’s going on. Because frankly, we just don’t know anymore.

****This will be an honest, open, adult soul-searching discussion. If you are a troll and bring up bullshit black crime statistics, I’ll ban you****

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82 thoughts on “The Conversation We Need to Have

  1. Hi,
    you know, not only “black/brown/red/yellow people” (I think it’s unfortunate that you refer to the idiotic racial groupings my ancestors coined, but that’s another conversation, though it might not be) ask themselves the questions you are asking. Imagine being a member of that so-called “whites” group, even though you absolutely do not refer to yourself as “white”, have never felt as such and do not understand what is wrong with all those people around you, in your families, among those you thought were your friends.
    We absolutely need to reject “whiteness” as a fact, because it is not a fact. It is an ideology, and as James Baldwin said somewhere in “A Rap on Race” with Margaret Mead, “something must have happened to them that was really bad” (I’m not quoting, I would need to search the book, I’m just remembering the phrase approximately).

    I hope you can still imagine that there are light-skinned people who really do wonder what is wrong with their recent civilization and its foundation, “race”. Europeans also used to be slaves to others, also used to be colonized, so is this where it went wrong ? Personally, I’m trying to understand. One of the things I’m trying to do it to find a way to reach out to them, but I can tell you it’s difficult. Few want to hear it. Few want to recognize it. However, there are others like me and we must multiply. The first thing we must do, I believe, is to deny “race” the right to rule over humans. We MUST get rid of that ideology. It is the root of the evil.

    If you have read some of my post on Abagond, you have maybe seen that link. M. Walter Mosley says it better that I would: http://vimeo.com/21501057

    You can also check out my blog for ideas…

    Light-skinned people must renounce whiteness (the root of white supremacy, or the attempt at it), because it is turning them into monsters and making other people’s lives complicated and often miserable. The Abagond post Psychotic Racial Personality made a point on “why”, or rather “how”. “Why” still stands. I also commented on it.

  2. mary burrell on said:

    I suppose this is nothing new, racist terrorist have been around for a long time. The kkk, reigning in the south and killing and firebombing churches with the death of four little girls in the sixties. I even learned that the military is filled with white supremacist. And I’m sure their superiors are aware of this. Shakespear’s quote from the Tempest. “Hell is empty all the devils are here.” Wade Michael Page is one such devil. He is in eternity in hell. He was a evil demon. Him and all those that follow that evil ideology.

  3. @ Cornlia

    First:

    “…I think it’s unfortunate that you refer to the idiotic racial groupings my ancestors coined, but that’s another conversation…”

    Yes, it is unfortunate indeed seeing that this is not my Mother Tongue. As a conquered race, most people of Colour will speak the language and use the idioms of our oppressors.

    Second:

    “…Light-skinned people must renounce whiteness (the root of white supremacy, or the attempt at it), because it is turning them into monsters and making other people’s lives complicated and often miserable.”

    Great comment.

    Can you please tell us how such a system that has been put into place since about the 17th century to create a political caste system can be broken when that very system comes with privileges?

    Can you please explain why humans that classify themselves as “white” will discriminate against other “whites” in the name of said privileges…i.e. Italians, Irish and Jews?

  4. Ron Thomas on said:

    Fear.

    They are seeing the end of the world as they know it. The “others” are going to soon be in the majority; they haven’t kept up educationally, culturally, spiritually, logically, emotionally, etc…. They have learned nothing throughout their time, except divisiveness, greed, hate, pettiness, bigotry…pick a vice.

    And now, it’s slowly but surely coming to an end, and they will no longer have the luxury of being priveleged due to their skin color. They are beginning to catch on that they have been sold a bill of goods by their own kind, and are now going to be discarded with the rest of the “undesirables.”

    They won’t make the cut, and they know it. And they are pissed.

    So like all little kids who can’t have it their way anymore, they are lashing out at anyone and anything, everyone and everything, because life is “unfair.” To them.
    “And why are black/ brown/ red/ yellow people of all countries turning the other cheek? Why aren’t we giving in? What does this say about our morality Vs. theirs? And why is NO ONE acknowledging that?”

    We are turning the other cheek at home, because we are busy trying to survive the meltdown of this bunch of nutjobs running loose in this armed madhouse. In other countries, they are watching the disintegration with an eye towards learning what NOT to do in their own country; making sure we don’t spill our craziness over into their realities, and of course, not without a sense of “told you so.” There’s also a very real fear among the rest of the world that white america won’t try to take the rest of the world with them out of spite.

    That’s part of my fears, as well.

    As for why we persevere, the answer (for me) is an easy one: There are no other options. What else are we going to do? After surviving all this time, and after all we have gone thru, giving up is not even a thought for the vast majority of us. We have lost some along the way; no doubt a few more will follow, but by and large, we have no intention of surrendering. So we’ll be here when all is said and done. Beat up some, but we’ll be here.

    And that frightens them more than anything, because the vast majority of THEM, don’t possess the type of strength, perseverance, presence of mind, or force of will that will see them through adjusting to the world changing. They’d rather not live in a world that they can’t “control.”

    As for the recognition of morality, white america still refuses to admit anyone has any besides them so they are suppressing THAT part of the story as hard as possible. The rest of the world acknowledges it, but you’ll never see it spoken of here. People need to read more, pay attention more, and understand what they are reading, to see that part of the story.

  5. Miss Mary

    Great comment. Albert Pike, the “granddaddy” of the KKK knew how to use politics and propaganda to accomplish this. He and AmeriKlan’s “founding financial fathers”:

    Mayer A. de Rothschild
    William A. Rockefeller

    And others….

    Were masters of illusion and propaganda. This is nothing new.

  6. Ron:

    WOW!

    That , my friend, was the best comment you’ve ever written! And very well said!

  7. Stephanie on said:

    I am white and whiteness is a sickness. A sickness that can’t be removed easily and most white people choose one of two options when they realize this: to become skinheads or to ignore their sickness and live a false sense of superiority. As a gay, jewish woman who appears male to many people I have had my share of bad encounters with white christian males and perhaps these experiences give me more inner strength to face the demon that is whiteness that rests inside me.

    Most white men have no strength and they project who they know themselves to be onto those they deem “other.” White men can’t play a game that they don’t control and to themselves are facing the reality that though they held all the cards at one point, that they were defeated. The US has not won a war since the last time the US fought white people. White men (and all white people) lost, they can see the writing on the wall and they can’t take it.

  8. It is not a question of tongue, diaryofanegress, it is a question of ideology. I am saying that what is unfortunate is that we still refer to human groups as races as they were defined centuries ago, which is the exact basis of racism/white supremacy.
    You reply using the term “conquered race”. No group of humans is a “conquered race”. Saying that is confirming the racists ideology. Your very blog shows you are not “conquered”. You DO NOT HAVE TO use the language of the oppressor ! On the contrary. The first move against the ideology should be the rejection of its very words !

    Which brings me to the next question: if I could tell you I know how to brake that system I would write a book about it right away and get it published all over. My idea is above: if you want to take away the basis of the power of the ideology of race, refuse to use its words. They are its founding idea. I am not the only one to say that, there are not many people who say it, but there are a few. There is a Congolese thinker in Canada who calls those words “plantation talk” and calls Africans to not use them to free their minds before they can free the rest.

    Refusing the ideology is a first step towards destroying it. I KNOW it’s not gonna happen magically. It will take years and centuries. They started their oppressive system by using what seemed “obvious” to subjugate people “phenotype” and skin color “simplified. (light-skinned: white, dark: black)
    I say, I’m not white. Who’s gonna say I am if I am not ? If you decide you call yourself another word, who’s gonna say you can’t ? Have they so much power that they decide ? Hell no. We must ignore their words. That will be like ignoring them, because they exist through them. They even think these words make them great.

    As for the last question, of course white supremacy has never been “fixed” because it is a tool for power. Whenever including a new group helped (like the Irish during Black Reconstruction era in the US) increase the number of “whites”, they would do it. They would do and say ANYthing to serve their “cause”. Anything. Even the most contradictory things. You know it. That is part of the Psychopatic Racial Personality referred to earlier. Anything.

    I know it might sound strange for me to ask that, but it is a very genuine question for me (mostly because I am not American and wasn’t brought up in such a racist environment, mine was more “subtle”): why do you so strongly consider that you cannot escape referring to race ? I really really don’t understand why people in the US don’t see it as a solution. Racists hate it when you tell them whiteness is an illusion. Why not attack them from that angle.

    That will not make the problem disappear overnight, but it will be a way to avoid using the racists’ weapons. They want to rule the game, change the rules, they’ll be lost and lose some of their power.

  9. “most white people choose one of two options when they realize this: to become skinheads or to ignore their sickness and live a false sense of superiority”

    Stephanie, I have a third option. I am not white. Whiteness is a state of mind. You don’t have to follow it. What the heck is this idea that you can be either a skinhead or accept ” a false sense of superiority”. It is the same thing ! Skinheads are “accepting a false sense of security too.

    A solution is to deny your whiteness, because you are not white. It is an illusion that built itself in to an social system, so it has had real consequences. But it is still an illusion and will always be. All “races” are illusions. They are ideological tools.

    Giving up to “race” is giving up to the ideology, we don’t have to. No obligation.

  10. “There’s also a very real fear among the rest of the world that white america won’t try to take the rest of the world with them out of spite.

    That’s part of my fears, as well.”

    I feel the same. I hate the US for that because light-skinned people in this country are sooo “white-minded” that they are blinded by it, and think that they are really the ones who are real, when they are the most empty humans on the planet. Together with a bunch of other white-minded people in Europe.

    Their void pushes them to want to possess everything (everything, even nature, but that is “normal” for a racist, as “race” is the most un-natural thing there is) and everyone. They will stop at nothing because they are so sickly empty.

  11. @ Stephanie
    I must say, your brutal honesty is much appreciated. Thanks for the contribution.

  12. @ cornlia

    Definition of racism/ white supremacy

    Individuals who classify themselves as white who participate in a GLOBAL system to humiliate, oppress, subjugate and terrorize all other individuals that classify them selves as “non white”. This system is linked to ALL areas of human life from birth to death.

    Simply refusing your classification isn’t going to help fixing whatever sickness dwells within. Since whites created this caste system and benefit from it daily my simple question is:

    Why all the rage?

  13. tehnoun on said:

    Most white men (and to some extent women) are so angry because there are people who dare challenge the stranglehold on the ill-gotten power we possess for no reason other than our own illness and bias. The truth about how things actually work is coming out more and more, and , given who it reflects on the worst, most white men cannot stand it. I’m not going to pretend us white women are at all innocent in the matters of race, but I think white men are trying to spark some sort of “race war” is because they’ve been bred to act aggressively to anything that fails to fit their limited, deeply ingrained worldviews. (Though that’s just my view on the matter. I’m not going to pretend this is sage advice or anything.)

  14. Cornlia hits on a good point namely that language is a main game for European supremacy. They are not white (or pure or normative or good or better), to me they are pink (lacking richness). Some are not even fully heterosexual as many have turned to homosexuality when raped in prison settings and remain that way even when out of prison. Their unique, long lasting and acute interest in the genitals of non-European males AND females doesn’t seem to indicate heterosexuality or mental stability. I do however, disagree with your use of the term “Christian” to describe clearly non-Christian attitudes and would even go so far as to assert that ALL of these violent males are only Christianized but pagan in heart and action. Why are they angry? I think it is dissonance. If they are superior, why are they afraid of their (so-called) inferiors? Why is their masculinity dependent on violence and muscularity rather than respect, peace and responsibility as in Asian cultures (sadly, I am not sure what is masculine in African and indigenous cultures). Once again, great topic.

  15. mary burrell on said:

    Another thing about these white supremist, That they call themselves christians. That has always baffled me. What god are they worshipping? What bible are they reading? That is another indication that racism is a sickness of the mind mind,soul, spirit.

  16. Miss Mary:

    Whites have perverted every religion which came out of Africa:

    http://ts2.mm.bing.net/images/thumbnail.aspx?q=4946355586400445&id=c08792051cc395815dd464b6612807ec

    And used the Curse oF Ham and The Curse of Cain to justify slavery. When faced with quotes that Jesus had “hair of wool and feet of brass” and Samson had “locks” aka Dreadlocks, they claim that the bible is full of fallacy and shouldn’t be taken at face value.

    Astonishing!

  17. To the whites who are commenting except Stephanie, who gave a brilliant and heartfelt opinion:
    Talking about rejecting “whiteness” isn’t the question at hand. Neither is homosexuality. We’re deviating from an honest exploration of a deeper problem.

    The question is :

    Why are white males, the most privileged of ALL people on the planet, so angry?

  18. Astonishing others is one way people with Narcissistic Personality Disorder will use in order to subjugate them.
    They will stop at nothing to manipulate and oppress. Even on a personal level, they do the same. They will tell you lies bigger than themselves and if you are under their power, you will believe them. You will even believe that YOU are the liar.
    They will tell you one thing one day to justify something, and the exact opposite the next day to justify the same thing.
    They are sick.

  19. I am sorry, TruthBeTold, but you just don’t realize how much it is at stake.

    It is ESSENTial to racism, and it is as such essential to understanding why so many light-skinned people find an empowerment in “whiteness”.

    I find funny actually, that you would decide all by yourself who is right and who is wrong. That is a very “white” thing.
    Exchanging ideas, comparing them and weighing their viability is much more scientific and less ideological.

  20. So based on this, I would say (that is one of my takes on it) that “whiteness” having been taught to light-skinned people as a natural fact (which it is not) that they must attain (“be”) in order to rule over others, many (if not most) of them actually have embraced it as an identity (some consciously and other unconsciously) and are trying to implement it. But they can’t because it’s void. It’s just an illusion. So they spend their lives being angry at others for reminding them that no, they are not superior beings, and yes, their ancestors have done the most horrible things to others on the basis of that belief.

    A light-skinned person who doesn’t BELIEVE he/she is white, is not affected by the mental disorder. Have you watched Walter Mosley’s speech on this ? Very very powerful.

  21. mary burrell on said:

    Because they know their evil system is about to be dismantled. They feel their privileges are about to be taken away. They feel threatened.

  22. Chazing.
    May I say that I absolutely do not adhere to a furthering of the idea of race in the sense that you apply characteristics of character (“lacking richness” – whatever that means !-) to a physical feature: pinkness. As far as I am concerned, I’m beige-skinned.
    Your generalizations must be criticized as much as the racists generalizations. You cannot fight an enemy with his own weapons. He knows them too well.

    What is this talk about prison, homosexuality and the rest ?

    All human groups interact sexually. We are sexual beings.
    The problem with the interaction of Europeans with the rest of humanity is not an ‘interest in the genitals of non-Europeans”, it is the mental disorder that accompanied that encounters within the frame of the ideology of race.

  23. mary your reply implies that you consider that ALL light-skinned persons are white.
    That would imply that you believe in the ideology of race. You need to look into that.

    Personally I have absolutely no fear, since I have never believed that race had any truth in itself. If I get killed in a “race” war, that will because of the system imposed on all of us, not because of “me” personally.

    What I don’t like in such replies, is that you imply that you “know” what others are thinking. What makes you think you know ? That also leads you to not listening to others.

  24. mary burrell on said:

    @Cornelia “HUH” Color Me confused at your comments. Have a great day!

  25. Funny how people who refuse to look at things get angry… Right ?
    Their is no reason to be confused at my comments.

    That is exactly the topic here. “white” people get angry because they refuse to look at things.

  26. Mickey on said:

    Hence, all of the hate towards our colored President.

  27. mary burrell on said:

    @Mickey +1 I totally agree with you. You bet me to it. I was about to say the same. And all this vitriol unveiled it’s self when President Obama was elected.

  28. mary burrell on said:

    *beat me to it.*

  29. Cornlia:

    ” I am sorry, TruthBeTold, but you just don’t realize how much it is at stake.”

    Why don’t you tell us?

  30. @ Mary

    Brilliant statement.

  31. I think I have already. Why is it that you would be against your allies ?

    What is at stake is not continuing the same system. Therefore getting rid of it. It’s not complicated, but it is complex to enforce. Racists managed to make us think racially, are we saying that they won ?

    I say no. I say I don’t care what racists think or want.

    I know what the implications of race are otherwise I would be here discussing them.

    I think we absolutely need to extirpate ourselves from racial thought and this conversation is an example of why.

    You are attacking me, when I am actually fighting the same fight as you.

    I cannot believe than some are even implying that I would be one of those dummies that are attacking M. Obama.
    You got the wrong target here.

  32. Seems like my reply didn’t go through at first.
    What is at stake is not perpetuate the ideology of race. That’s simple, and implementing it is complicated… I know. But we have to start somewhere.

  33. Now replaying to you comment above (there is no reply button, sorry).

    @ diaryofanegress

    “Definition of racism/ white supremacy

    Individuals who classify themselves as white who participate in a GLOBAL system to humiliate, oppress, subjugate and terrorize all other individuals that classify them selves as “non white”. This system is linked to ALL areas of human life from birth to death.

    Simply refusing your classification isn’t going to help fixing whatever sickness dwells within. Since whites created this caste system and benefit from it daily my simple question is:

    Why all the rage?”

    Let me start with the question: can you quote me where you think I expressed rage ? Are you not confusing determination with rage ?

    I know what racism is, diaryofanegress. If you read my former posts here and in Abagond you will know. I will not re-develop on that.

    The “human life” you are referring to here is “human life in regions infested with the ideology of race”. It’s not everywhere, and it’s not everywhere the same.

    When I first came to the US (actually I hadn’t come yet, it was by mail), I realized when filling out my registration papers to be an exchanged student in SC that there was a box called “race”. I looked it up in the dictionary because I couldn’t *believe* that at the end of the 20th century, someone, let alone an administration, would actually ask someone for his or her race.
    That is how I discovered that the US is still deep into “race thinking”. In France it is forbidden.

    I had never defined myself as white, nobody around me did, so I used my knowledge of history (I was 18 then, I didn’t know as much as I do now) and used a pencil (not a pen because I was still not sure that it was what I was supposed to write) to write ‘white” and put a question mark next to it. Since then I have never complied with the “race” question.

    Every other French person and most Europeans can not believe it (because it belong to the realm of beliefs) that “race” is actually still so very much part of institutions in the US. Witness the way Hispanics are asked to enter racist America by separating into “Black” Hispanics and “White” Hispanics in census forms and other forms.

    I’m telling you this personal anecdote so you understand where I come from.

    When I first arrived on campus in SC I thought “hé, segregation isn’t over !” It was unbelievable how people didn’t “mix” socially. After a few months of trying to get along with Americans I settled with getting along with “Internationals” (from virtually all over the world), who didn’t give a damn about “race” either. The only Americans who understood this were those that had traveled or lived abroad long enough to have a external critical vision of their own country. “Black” or “white”.

    “Refusing my classification” is not “simple”, diaryofanegress. Not at all. It is a political and ideological fight of every instant. Racism is politics.

    Refusing my classification is going to help, diaryofanegress. I will not see the fruits of that denial of power on me by racists during my lifetime, but I hope to plant little seeds that will be watered by others and make more people aware.

    The advantages you invoke, I know I have them, and I try to use them to change things, and in particular thinking. I try to talk to other so-called white to thin about it, to recognize the facts of racism and what it still does to dark-skinned people. It is not easy because they don’t want to listen, you know that.

    Maybe refusing my classification is my biggest advantage, so I use it.

    Why on earth should I, tell me, why should I accept to comply to the worst thing my ancestors ever invented ? Why ?

    That is where my determination stems from. I see no reason why you and I should accept the madness ! I see no reason why they should continue to spread it and win.

    Peace

  34. i don’t know why they are angry but i could venture a guess on why so filled with hate, it’s the culture of usa and upbringing. was thinking the other day the only hope for this hate to stop is the children. how can we have hope in the children when they learn from haters ? God forbid the children see the news, our own President, a man of color, is as nazi inside and killing other people of color for political gain, how can he sleep at night or look in his children’s eyes after his increase in violence and aggressions of peoples everywhere. it makes me cry this vicious cycle. people say, well we don’t control foreign policy, bull. the people in power work for us, if they don’t do what we want there should be way to remove them immediately, without delay, for breach of contract, not by congress or some other political bodies but by the people.

  35. @ Cornlia

    First I’d like to thank you for responding to this post. It’s a difficult one I must admit. As this blog is a tool designed to explore, heal, learn, teach and conquer racism, I understand the emotional strain it puts on ALL of us. Digging into history is painful. On both sides…

    However…

    You have derailed my thread. The answers you give are not corresponding with my question. This is not about:

    1. Race refusal
    2. Destroying race classification

    You stated:

    “Maybe refusing my classification is my biggest advantage, so I use it”

    Your biggest advantage isn’t your denial / refusal of European classification, it is your skin colour that grants you the privilege of doing so. I and the other blacks/browns/ yellows/reds on this blog do not have that privilege. Racism affects us ALL in the form of :

    1. Education
    2. Employment
    3, Housing
    4. Child -Rearing
    5. Relationships
    6. Self-Value / Self Image
    7. Medical Care
    8. Food and Nutrition
    9. War
    10. Politics

    As you can see, the things I’ve listed cover all aspects of human existence.

    I read a quote once, I cannot remember which blog I was on, but it stated:

    “Privilege is driving a smooth road and not realizing it.”

    Since this exercise is proven to be pedantic perhaps I’ll stop now.

  36. @ Cari

    I agree. The kids are our only hope but the said thing is, racism breeds racism.

  37. Thanks diaryofanegress. This is exactly what I meant:

    “Your biggest advantage isn’t your denial / refusal of European classification, it is your skin colour that grants you the privilege of doing so.”

    I know that my “skin color” (otherwise seen as “race”) allows me to act. So I act.

    And your list is a reflection of facts in racist societies. I totally agree with you. I have family members and friends who have to undergo them. I also had students when I was a teacher. In all case, I acted whenever I could, by opening my mouth and writing letters. And inviting a South African to my school for a week.

    Thanks for the reply. Peace

  38. The African American Achilles Heel
    http://blackagendareport.com/content/african-american-achilles-heel

    tell me what you think of this, i think it’s very true. we have no choices, is time to rise up and pull plug on meriklan “democracy” or shut up and wait till they kill us all

  39. @ Cari

    Chica, I’m working with Kushite Prince on the Illuminati. Since I want to be through, I’ll start with Mayer A. de Rothschild and work my way up.

    Many on this forum will think me a mad “conspiracy theorist” who needs meds but whatver…

    All elites want us dead or enslaved. Great article too by the way. Yes, Obama has deceived us all, especially black folks who waited so long to see this moment in time.

    I never knew he was Daddy Bush’s cousin! I learned that from this blogger that studies presidents and their ties to the royal family.

    Oh!

    One more thing:

    I don’t know if you have the time but on youtube, there is a dynamite documentary called The Arrivals. Part one and two. It’s long….real long but awesome. If time permits….please watch.

  40. Hmmmm. Isn’t that another of their manipulative techniques ?

    “I never knew he was Daddy Bush’s cousin!”

    You have to be really sure to let such statements flow ! Are you sure ?
    If it is true, then it would explain how they “let” him.

    If it isn’t, it is serious matter, because it means playing their deceitful game… Careful…

  41. I think a lot of their anger stems from them believing they’re losing “their” country. This usually happens when you have an influx of a lot of immigrants. In this case,Mexicans. Also the economy is in the toilet so a lot of white folks are out of work. Every time the economy goes bad—they blame minorities. Never mind that many blacks and hispanics are used to high unemployment. But America doesn’t care unless it’s white people who are out of work. If white unemployment is at 9-10% then for blacks it’s probably 20-25%. Black people are used to struggling and barely getting by. Whites are used to their privilege so they get really stressed out. That’s why you hear on the news about white men killing their entire family and themselves when they get laid off. Or they go on a shooting rampage for getting picked on at school. It’s always some silly reason. Black people handle stress better than white people. Just my 2 cents.

  42. @ Prince

    Thanks. Stress does play a role in the outburst of anger. Another thing that separates us is:

    Black anger is self inflicted and intra-racial.
    White anger is interracial and implosive.

  43. omg i didn’t know they were related, wow … thank you will try to watch this evening at least part one, not much planned for tomorrow other than some steers to auction while prices are up a little

  44. That’s true. But for us it’s worse because we inflict on our people and still have to deal with a racist system that hates black people.Our stress is combined by living in a stressful environment. Whites got it easy. They just don’t now it.

  45. Ok. Great. Tell me how you like it. One of the best documentaries on this “illusion” we’re under.

  46. Who said” Black kill blacks because they weren’t taught to kill whites?”

    Was it Malcolm X?

  47. will do 😉

  48. That was Amos Wilson. It’s in his book Black on Black Violence.

  49. ynotme on said:

    Whites are used to their privilege so they get really stressed out. That’s why you hear on the news about white men killing their entire family and themselves when they get laid off. Or they go on a shooting rampage for getting picked on at school. It’s always some silly reason.

    Those silly reason are often used to justify or pamper their actions and to create a new syndrome to explain their weak and sick minds.

  50. @ Ynotme

    You are like, the third or fourth person who said mental weakness is the culprit. Hmmm….maybe we’re on to something.

  51. ChazIng on said:

    Cornlia, I disagree. When one’s skin looks pink, it does not look rich but more sickly. That’s my ethnocentric opinion, they think it indicates health. You seem to think that this is racist, it’s not. It’s normative non-European ethnocentrism which can be effective [http://ethnicmuse.wordpress.com/2012/08/20/repost-ethnocentric-studies]. The science behind it is that lack of melanin causes skin to age faster so you can look at lacking richness as lacking sustenance over time. It does not mean that any tone or type is inherently better which I suspect is what you thought I meant. One can and should use the same weapons of racists since it has been shown to be extremely effective. Your assertion about their knowing their weapons better assumes that non-Europeans are somehow incapable of understanding and using European weapons, that’s preposterous, dangerous and incorrect. The blue eyes brown eyes experiment shows that when benefits are deprived from a group, they cease to think of themselves as superior and start to behave as such. As far as I am aware, this is the only method that has been successful in mentally breaking and educating Europeans about racism. In prison, some heterosexual males become bisexual and homosexual after sexual liaisons. This indicates that their heterosexuality was not firmly established, it means nothing about if one form is better or worse. I would think that the European interest in non-European genitalia would classify as a mental disorder and I stated such so I am confused about your last comment.

  52. ChazIng on said:

    This anger may stem from sexuality though I would point out that my comments were based on your original claim that they were heterosexual which I say, some really are not.

  53. ChazIng on said:

    The ‘hair of wool and feet of brass’ is bible allegory, a common way to add depth of meaning to symbols

  54. wilson on said:

    In my opinion. they are so angry because they are losing CONTROL. What do I mean?

    I have noticed something quite unique from white people. They twist words to try to appear what they are not. The thing though, underneath those words lie something very sinister. For example, this topic that you’ve brought up truthbetold has got a response like:

    “Hi,
    you know, not only “black/brown/red/yellow people” (I think it’s unfortunate that you refer to the idiotic racial groupings my ancestors coined, but that’s another conversation, though it might not be) ask themselves the questions you are asking. Imagine being a member of that so-called “whites” group, even though you absolutely do not refer to yourself as “white”, have never felt as such and do not understand what is wrong with all those people around you, in your families, among those you thought were your friends.”

    ======================================================

    The thing is such a statement from the outside seems harmless, almost humanitarian. It disarms you immediately by implying we are all human but for a few bad apples. That might be true but is besides the point.

    What is true is that such a statement looks for you to agree with it. That is why it is dressed in such a way. The problem comes when you DON’T agree with it. When you don’t then the aggression slowly starts to seep to the surface and for some, it erupts like a volcano. See, you can’t disagree with it because it makes absolute sense to the person that made it and therein lies a huge problem with whiteness. IT IS INCAPABLE OF SEEING THINGS FROM A DIFFERENT POINT OF VIEW. Furthermore, it seeks to control in that it can not live with something that it rejects, it must mold everything in its image for it to be accepted. It does not accept diversity.

    Black anger is borne from the fear of scarcity, i.e. we are put into an environment where we must fight each other to get a chance to get to the end of the tunnel where only a few will be let through. However, white crime like the murderous rampages we have seen recently is borne out of a deep rooted hatred for humanity and life itself. It is not borne out of scarcity eg poverty, it is borne from a desire to control, dominate, humiliate and subjugate.

    Why else would it have done what it did in the 16th, 17th, 18th, 19th, 20th and now 21st century. It is anti-life.

    Now I don’t know where whiteness stops and white people begin. I don’t want to say, all white people have whiteness embedded into their DNA just because they are white. I don’t know but it is something that is peculiar to that race. That ability to appear what it’s not.

    I personally believe it is a cultural disease that first took hold in the white races and uses it as a vehicle to propagate itself upon this world.

    Origin… Unknown???

  55. ChazIng on said:

    Why are white males so angry? – Perhaps due to being disconnected from their ethnic past when they gave up being ethnic German, French and English (among others) for simply being the fallacious thing called ‘white’

  56. WOW Wilson, that was excellent.

    My brother called me this morning to laugh at me for attempting to include white males in a honest adult conversation.

    Wilson, society is crumbling. All of it. I was listening to one of the videos Mickey gave us with paul Mooney. He said if we can’t get it together, we’re gone.

    Either we’re going to hang together or hang separately but either way, we’re going to hang. I’m actually frightened of what’s coming sometimes.

    Whites use the power of words so succinctly to disguise their racism you almost have to be looking out for it or you’ll miss it.

    Perhaps the one thing that amazes me time and time again is the lack of EMPATHY.

  57. @ Chazing

    Could be.

  58. wilson on said:

    To be honest,

    The thing that disappoints me the most, above everything else, is the lack of justice.

    That bad people always win. That evil has greater power. The power to take life. Everything seems sooo insignificant next to it, because we live underneath its mercy, at any point it can cut you down and certain men have taken it upon themselves to be the wielders of such power. That no one can stop them without turning into them.

    See, yes, they will eventually kill the planet and we will all die, or something else might happen and we will still all die. There is no justice, the scales are uneven. So many souls lost, so many suffering and yet no sign of any redemption. That we must all turn into caricatures of this disease. That it is the one single authority in this world, maybe even universe.

    Where is the light? Where is the new day? Where is the justice? The empowering of the “other”. This despised “other” hated so dearly by “whiteness”.

    It is truly sad.

    Another sad thing is that for most of us this is all we know and we fight to defend what we know even though that which we fight for is our greatest enemy. We want to escape but we can’t. Our actions betray our words and our deepest feelings.

    Can it get any more sad?

  59. Maybe the “new day” will come in the form of new humans on earth. We’re not doing too great so maybe God will have to start over.

  60. Hi Wilson,

    since you quoted me, let me respond.

    What you imply with “That is why it is dressed in such a way” is giving me too much credit for my rhetorical capacities.

    If you have time, I would like to invite you to read the reply in which I explain who I am and why I think about “race” the way I do.

    If you find aggression in my comments elsewhere, please point to it.

    I think you give me and my discourse too much importance. I’m just trying to explain to commentators here what the topic of the post state.

    I agree with most of the things that are said about “whites”, you can check it in my other posts, as well as in Abagond’s blog.

  61. Thinking about it, I don’t think white males (and many white females) are angry, in fact, I think they are hateful. Anger is a positive emotion, hate is not.

    If it was just about anger, a solution would have been found long ago. But hate, it’s another problem to deal with.

  62. I was writing in the other thread (The White Woman’s best accessory) and this came to my mind when you mentioned “black rage and black depression” in relation to ibeelaw’s remark:

    The depression and rage you are referring to actually goes together with the Psychopathic Racial Disorder that was mentioned on Abagond’s blog.

    People with Narcissistic Personality Disorder (basically the same as the one above, minus the racial aspect) do lead their victims to rage (because it is so hard to act against the mentally sick personality for various reasons, one being in particular that they will always (try to) reverse the blame for what they do to you on you) and to depression, which is, I think from my own experience with/against a person with that disorder, the fact that they control you and transfer their infinite void to you.
    They basically are vampires and makes zombies out of their victims. I discovered I was being controlled when I started comparing myself to a zombie, in the cultural sense, that is, a person who not him/herself anymore, but obeys another person’s rules. In voodoo, they say the manipulator puts your soul in a bottle, and uses your energy for his/her own sake (because he/she is without vital energy).

    Racism can only lead to that kind of disfuntioning because it is anti-natural. It can only take the life out of its believers. The absence of vital energy can be translated into the presence of hatred. What do you think ?

  63. There is a slippery slope from pride of one’s people to hate of the ‘other’; from positive patriotism to negative xenophobic nationalism.

  64. Pingback: The Conversation We Need to Have | Community Village Daily Activist | Scoop.it

  65. mary burrell on said:

    S ister Truth, This is my last comment. I truly need you to help me understand something. Cornlia said she was light skinned, not white, What does that mean. I did’nt understand that at all. I think i possess a fair modicum of intelligence. Was she trying derail the discussion on the post? Because that sounded crazy too me. Light skinned/white? It seemed to me she is trying to come off as some kind of psuedo-intellectual.I know I did not appreciate her coming on this blog trying to tell me how to think and what the hell to say and be. She sounds like one of those draptos Abagond did a post on. I noticed on Abagond’s blogs when I post a comment she seems to be offended.Hmmm…. I think I hit a nerve with her. She is always trying to correct people on Abagond’s blog. I express myself the way Iwant to express myself. But that individual seems to have a problem with me. Anyway I thought I was answering your question that the thread was about. Tell me what you think will be awaiting your reply.

  66. Hi Miss Mary

    You know, my brother called me yesterday to laugh at me for doing this post. He wondered why I would invite such honest reflection. Reading some of these comments, I wondered what I was thinking as well.

    I honestly don’t know what Cornlia meant by her comments. Only she can tell you. What I do know is, most whites on a global scale find extreme discomfort in racial reflection because of our tumultuous past. Guilt and shame play a factor in it with a good dose of denial for sanity purposes.

    What I do know, in my honest opinion, is this world isn’t balanced or fair. Whiteness, or whatever you wanna call it, is an advantage. Denouncing it isn’t going to change anything. How silly would it be for me to say “I am no longer black so the social construct doesn’t apply to me ?”

    How dangerous would it be for me to feel that because I’ve “refused” my race, I can go anywhere I wish, in any neighbourhood I wish and mingle with anyone I wish? I always laugh when blacks shrug off the colour issue as hyperbole because deep down I’m thinking…” Be at the wrong place at the wrong time and you’ll find out just how black you really are.”

    As for telling others what to think?

    *sigh*

    Once, in a black social studies class, my professor asked us to write down one word that best defines the white race. I wrote down “arrogant.” As did a few other classmates. Arrogance makes it difficult to listen and learn.

    Your comments were great. Thanks a lot.

  67. wilson on said:

    You make such a good point Truthbetold,

    Just denying something doesn’t mean it stops to exist.

    Cornilia is saying that, just because she doesn’t acknowledge whiteness, that it doesn’t exist for her but that it does for those that acknowledge it.

    Sigh…

    What logic, this is basically White Privilege in a nutshell.

    It’s like those wallstreet bankers complaining they don’t earn enough money..

    This is also basically the state of racism nowadays… JUST IGNORE IT. Sweep it underneath the rug and like magic it stops to exist… Someone can come out and say the most racist thing imaginable and afterwards will simply go, “You are reading to much into it… Calm down, racism doesn’t exist because races are a fictitious construct and as such I can’t be racist. Stop thinking of yourself as colored and voila, problem solved”…

    🙂

  68. @ Wilson

    Funny thing with ignoring things…when things fester, they explode in a pus-like atom bomb. This post has taught me so much about not just myself and my increasing impatience towards supremacy but that most whites will never be able to face the demon we all have within us.

    Maybe that’s why they feel it necessary to hurt someone, to marginalize that exotic “other.” If not for us to abuse, they’d self destruct.

  69. mary burrell on said:

    Thank you Sister Truth ,Only thing that matters is that you thought I had good comments. I thought something was wrong with my reading comprehension. @Wilson Thanks for helping me have clarity as well.

  70. Miss Mary

    My reading comprehension skills have been in question also reading certain comment….hehe

  71. Marry. And everyone.

    This is an extremely interesting conversation. Even though it may never get us anywhere. I would have prefered that you address me directly, marry. I’m no monster.

    I don’t remember ever replying to you on Abagond’s blog.

    That you would not understand what I am saying, I know why.
    You’re American, I’m not. It may sound strange, but let me try to explain.

    If you read the paragraph (somewhere on this blog) I wrote about my first encounter with America in the shape of a form to fill out, you may understand better.

    To put it in a nutshell: there are people on this planet who do not define themselves racially. It may come as a surprise to you, but it is the case.

    My attitude has nothing to do with arrogance (diaryofanegress I think you are not being fair) but with a different approach of things.

    When I say I am light skinned but not white I mean it. My skin is beige (not white, white is a racial simplification that has nothing to do with skin color, there are no grey or orange people on this planet (as children of “black” and “white” or “yellow” and “red” people). There are only people with skin tones ranging from light pink to very dark brown.
    I am resolutely placing myself outside of the frame of race.

    The ideology of race was my ancestors’ invention. I *think* I can decide if I accept it a a fact or not. I don’t.
    Race is an invention that has had multiple consequences, on all kind of levels (diaryofanegress made a list of them the other day). It is an ideology, therefore has consequences on social relationships. The first of them being the enslavement of Africans, because it was one of the reasons why Europeans coined races, to justify it. An other reason and the main one was to represent themselves as a superior race. But you know all that.

    I can understand that you would view me as “crazy”, because in the referential of race, I am. I am “abnormal”. In a racist society, it is not normal to not be racist, that is not to believe in race.

    But I can reassure you, there are quite a few crazy people like me outside of the US. This country (the US) brings up its children to believe in race. Other countries, like mine, do the opposite. My own president promised that he would remove the word “race” from the first amendment of our Constitution if he was elected. Classification on the basis of “race” or ethnic groups is forbidden in France, the effort being on not perpetuating the ideology of race. My ideas do not all come from my own brain. There another ideology behind it.

    That is billions of miles away from the American psyche.

    It was a shock to me when I realized the US still classified its citizens racially. To outsiders it is extremely archaic.

    If you and others feel attacked, or feel that I am being arrogant, or that it is “typical white”, that’s because you’ve been used to thinking racially, and I pop up here and seem to attack your “identity”, because your identity as Americans is racial. “Black”. Or “white”. No in between. That is taboo here.

    It is very difficult for me to explain this, because we are actually talking from different perspectives.

    You think that me not defining me racially (you imagine it’s a refusal, no, it is a fact, I have never defined myself racially, because this is how my society works) is a kind of defiance. It is in a sense, because I appear as wanting to defy a whole system of thought. And when I am in the US, I actually do.

    I am very very far from ignoring race as social fact (especially in the US), I know exactly where I stand on it. My determination not to accept to be defined racially somehow means that I cannot live in this country. But it is also a political stance. Race has never been a natural fact, it is not about biology, it is about politics, economics and control. I know that very well (even if you think I don’t and I’m just hallucinating or whatever) what I am dealing with here.

    It doesn’t matter if you think I’m this or that. As Americans, you were not given (or rather you were hidden) the tools to grasp a more global vision, outside the frame of race. This country was built on that ideology (through the forced work of your ancestors for my ancestor’s cousins who invaded this place), and still thrives on it. With all due respect, it makes you blind to certain outside/foreign cultural aspects. Like the fact of designating race as a political tool and not a natural fact.
    Malcolm X referred to that when he came back from abroad. He realized that people didn’t always put race first in their interactions with others.

    The only thing I don’t appreciate very much is that you (those who commented “me”) allow yourselves the right to judge me.

    But that is also part of the ideology. Its creators (who I hate) have made sure that were it was applied (and Amerikkka is the place where its enforcement was the strongest), those who tried to deny it as a valid ideology (because it is destructive, totally, and you know it) would be attacked by its very victims, because it is presented as the only possible way to build an identity.

    I don’t know how to explain this better. If you don’t understand this point of view of mine, again, it’s not a problem. Maybe someday someone you trust and do not see as arrogant can explain with references you will be familiar with.

    What I conclude from this exchange (and it is interesting that it should have happened in a post entitled “the Conversation we need to have”) is that racists have built such walls between people in this country that they really hinder mutual comprehension in some (many ?) cases.

    I really regret that. I imagine you don’t care that I do, but again, it is not a problem.

    The problem is white-minded people, white-supremacy/racism and the way people who look me have treated your ancestors and are still treating you, because it is totally, absolutely wrong. They were and are still very powerful because they made/make it so that you can’t see what I am doing.

    Let’s just lead our fight against them as we know how to do it.

    I know what I am doing. That’s enough for me. If you have time, please see this video of Walter Mosley, maybe it will illustrate what I am trying to do better, maybe you will see it in another light: http://vimeo.com/21501057

    As far as I am concerned, he summed it all in this speech. I already posted it in a reply to diaryofanegress.

    Peace, from the heart, with no arrogance, only a genuine hope that my ancestors have not destroyed everything.

  72. @ Cornlia

    Thanks for the heartfelt attempt but sometimes…just sometimes, the best way to learn and be taught is to listen. The folks on here have given me an education to last a lifetime because I let them speak and I listen.

  73. SomeGuy on said:

    I find it interesting that a certain someone is trying to convince people that Europeans don’t think in terms of race when some of the worst racial crimes in the history of Humanity happened in Europe, not too long ago. There are PLENTY of angry WHITE (yes, White, not light-epidermal bio-hominids or whatever non-sense term you use) men running around attacking and sometimes killing people of other races and ethnicities in current times. I can post many links to assaults and murders in Europe regarding race in the past ten years.

    If the light-epidermal bio-hominids hate the dark-epidermal bio-hominids based on skin color, that racism. Who the hell cares what label is used??

  74. diaryofanegress, I listen. I have listened and I will continue to listen. Believe me.

    Do you listen ? To all the voices ?

    Wilson, I am not ignoring whiteness, I am acknowledging it to the point that I have decided that I would fight it. I think I have shown in my posts that I know what effects it has and has had. I don’t need to go into details, that would be an insult to you.

    SomeGuy, I know everything you are saying. I am *just* saying, and I think that I have done it clearly, that the take on race *today* in the US and in Europe is different. We have politicians, like M. Sarkozy and M. LePen who are trying to re-instill the ideology of race into political discourse in France.

    The fact that the ideology is not perceived in the same way does not mean that the effects of it are not serious and real. I am very aware of that.

    I am trying to concentrate on the ideology. I am trying to understand how it works. I am trying to find ways to attack it. I think that we need to attack the roots of it. That’s my idea.

    Is it better or worse than being a racist ? I’ll let you all decide if you prefer to attack your enemies or your allies. I’m serious. We are at the center of the ideological manipulation here. Sometimes I think you feel more comfortable listening to racists than to people like me who are trying to get the poison out of the fruit.

    TruthBeTold, I am not telling others what to think. I am expressing my vision of things and I hope to be able to debate on it. I’m not imposing it, how could I ?

    However, several of the commentators think they can tell me who I am…

    I think you don’t see some of what I see. I don’t see some of what you see. It’s only fair, since we are from different backgrounds, cultures.

    Telling me that I don’t listen… Well, I’ll leave it that.

    I prefer to be perceived as crazy in a racist world than as racist in a sane one.

    I am a friend, not an enemy, but your enemy has taught you to see an enemy in me. And damn, has he succeeded. If I believed in the devil, I would say “he” is it. He has trapped us in “race”, forces us to evolves in “his” world. Why should we accept it ? that is all I am asking. That doesn’t mean I think things are gonna change over night if we reject the ideology. I simply think that we must start, someday. Otherwise, “he” has won.

    Listen to the Africans who reject “race” as “plantation talk”. Maybe you’ll understand what they’re saying. There are other theories than American ones on how to fight racism/white supremacy.

  75. To conclude, and then I’ll leave this conversation since I don’t think I am welcome (and that doesn’t make me “angry”, just in case you would try to analyze it in such a way).

    How is it that so many here and elsewhere (“whites” and “blacks”) seem to be more keen on defending race-ism as naturally valid than on attacking the ideology ? Why do so many people prefer to establish themselves as the defenders of the supremacist castle than in assaulting it starting with its moats and walls ?

    That is a mystery to me so far, though I’m beginning to see so light come through the darkness of the dungeon.

    “I find it interesting” (to paraphrase a “certain person” who doesn’t dare name me, I wonder why, maybe because he said he would know reply to me anymore) that this proposition I made to this very post …

    “Thinking about it, I don’t think white males (and many white females) are angry, in fact, I think they are hateful. Anger is a positive emotion, hate is not.

    If it was just about anger, a solution would have been found long ago. But hate, it’s another problem to deal with.”

    … is not commented on at all, while my stating my determination to attack “race”, the ideology, is considered as a problem. Really ! Don’t you think there is something wrong here ?

  76. wilson on said:

    @ Cornlia

    Ok, I will immerse myself into your racial or should I say “Non-racial” world-view for now to see where it goes.

    One point that you made above stood out to me:

    “Why does america classify its Citizens racially?” to paraphrase. Well let us think of what would happen if it didn’t… People of color could not be able to come together and defend there rights based on color. But I assume you will say that, racial discrimination wouldn’t happen since people wouldn’t classify each other racially.

    Ok, lets look at the rest of the world excluding Africa. In every country with a black population, black people are ALWAYS at the bottom in general. In India and their caste system the dark skinned ones are called “undesirables” etc…

    Soooo what is your explanation for this Cornlia?

  77. I don’t have an explanation Wilson. I’m not that bright and knowledgeable.

    I have a response that I can give that mirrors what you are saying:

    Is the situation of “black people” in the US much better than in the rest of the world where there are no institutionalized classifications ?

    I know that one aspect of maintaining race “checking” is to allow Affirmative Action. (It must really have been well argumentated for in this society because I can hardly imagine the powers of this place allowing for it to happen, so that’s why I think that they also imagine that it continues to serve their interests.)

    Has it had its effects ? From what I have been able to read and hear, it has for a certain fraction of the African-American community. But the majority ? Are “whites” okay with not “counting” the number of dark-skinned people that are higher than them at their work place or where-ever they go ? Far from that, right. They are not ready at all for the majority of them. To not care who is their boss and better than them.

    I have no solutions, I am just trying to take the elements I have at disposal and think of what ways could help us isolate, if not dilute, before next generations can finally annihilate, the principles of that ideology.

    It is so twisted that it forces us to *use* it to fight it.

    When I express my absence of racism (in the sense that I don’t believe in the existences of races), I am reminded my “whiteness” because “race” exists socially. So basically I am told: “you cannot not be racist because you are white and you benefit from it”. I am stuck in it because these societies were built on it. (But societies are not eternal. Claiming my non-whiteness is a socio-political act, it may have an impact or it may not, but I do it).

    When societies want to improve the representation of their members to avoid racism, they have to do it by using racial categories !

    Do you believe that maintaining racial categories can eventually help suppress them ?
    I don’t. I have seen the process of trying to reinstate racial thinking in my country these last years, since M. Sarkozy came to power. There was a whole bunch of thinkers distributing “their ideas” in the media. “Their ideas” were quite simple, it was the theory of races. They want people to re-think racially in a place where the idea had been removed from law an institutions. But hardly from subconscious and social life. However, I have witnessed how that attempt has given some (neo-nazis) the impression that they could indeed express their racism openly when they wouldn’t have (at all) a few years before. It was still a shame. For some it isn’t anymore, because they have thinkers and politicians’ approval and help close to the institutional level.

    Which brings us back to the question. Where is it better ? If you have an answer…

  78. mary burrell on said:

    @Cornlia, Alright Madamoiselle, we’re cool. Maybe I’ll get to Paris and we can do the Josephine Baker tour together. And share a baguette. Peace and Blessings to you.

  79. I am so late to this conversation, but I’ve taken to exploring old posts on your blog. I realize that I’m saying a lot of stuff that’s already been said by you so please excuse me. Negress, you and I think a lot alike but you are infinitely more finessed than I am. I am tactless and admit it. lol..Anyhoo, the lack of empathy characteristic is a hallmark of sociopathy and anyone who looks up the sociopathic personality disorder will see that it describes to a T how whites have historically dealt with people of color. To a T. I think that’s why the civil rights movement or any other kind of rights movement initiated by people of color will be doomed if it’s based on appealing to the purported ‘conscience’ of the white collective. Sociopathy prevents self-reflection and taking responsibility for behavior, no matter how deliberate. They will always find a way to blame their victim, essentially making you the primary source of your victimization–it’s YOUR fault for allowing yourself to become victim. The same kind of pathological thinking that characterizes the pimp/ho dynamic.
    @Wilson below: I have often wondered if this is indeed HELL? I wonder if anybody else has ever had this thought? This is like an alternate universe where black is white, good is bad, right is wrong, up is down, truth is denigrated and lies are passed off as the gospel, the weak are viewed as strong, strength is threatening, knowledge is frowned upon and ignorance is heralded…and the most vile, amoral, corrupt ‘beings’ are in power…how could that NOT describe Hell as I imagine it.

  80. On the one hand I agree, but I also believe there is some merit to the idea that rejecting the race paradigm renders it moot. The primary way, hell, the ONLY way it exists and continues to function as the primary worldview is b/c we all go along with it–black, white and other. We give it legitimacy. If enough people were brave enough to reject it, what do you think would happen? It’s not like global apartheid has been around since the genesis of man. It’s a fairly new construct. I don’t believe it’s sustainable for much longer and imo it will be consigned to the trash heap of history like any other inherently unfair and unjust system. Ultimately, I believe the Universe seeks balance and self-corrects.

  81. Hi nmaat433.

    I just saw your new comments in my email box. And I feel you are on point.

    A few years ago, I was the victim, personally, of a person who had the personality trouble called “narcissistic personality disorder” in the US. It is called “Perversion Narcissique” in French (meaning these people have this capacity to put everything upside down and to LIE like crazy, make you believe you are the ones lying). I mentioned what I think about the effects of Narcissistic Perversion above. I don’t know if you read it.

    And I think it corresponds to this comment of yours:
    “I have often wondered if this is indeed HELL? I wonder if anybody else has ever had this thought? This is like an alternate universe where black is white, good is bad, right is wrong, up is down, truth is denigrated and lies are passed off as the gospel, the weak are viewed as strong, strength is threatening, knowledge is frowned upon and ignorance is heralded…and the most vile, amoral, corrupt ‘beings’ are in power…how could that NOT describe Hell as I imagine it.”

    I think that is exactly it. Not that we are in hell, but that they (white supremacists) want us to be in hell. (And having the direct victim of a narcissistic pervert, it was hell).

    Also, this: “The primary way, hell, the ONLY way it exists and continues to function as the primary worldview is b/c we all go along with it–black, white and other. We give it legitimacy.”
    You are right on point, in my opinion. legitimacy. Race is a legal fact. First. Before it became a cultural fact (contrary to what Wilson implied above, (that I am “saying that, just because I don’t acknowledge whiteness, that it doesn’t exist for me but that it does for those that acknowledge it.”, I do recognize that “whiteness” is a social and cultural fact), it was a pseudo-scientific and legal fact. In the Codes, le Code Noir and the Black Codes in the US.

    That is why I say that I reject “whiteness”. Because acknowledging it gives it legitimacy. It is very difficult to make people understand that stance, because either they think I am some lunatic who rejects her self, or a “white” person who is lost, or whatever.

    It think that what you’re referring to is the greatest victory of racists: to have made most people adhere to their idea…

    You also ask: “If enough people were brave enough to reject it, what do you think would happen?” Exactly. It would make racists mad because they would lose their grip on us.

    Thank you. It makes me feel good to see that I am not *that* lonely in trying to think a way out of the BS of race.
    I think I posted the link to Walter Mosley’s speech expresses it better than me. http://vimeo.com/21501057

    I also took a graduate class on the Theory of races and social thought recently (I wanted to get scholarly references of what has been written on race/racism, and I noticed very very few scholars really reject race, and “black studies” in particular are very encouraged (a lot of money there… hmmm, I wonder how come?) and was able to think more about how “blackness” works as a protective wall for African-Americans in the US (as the opposition to whiteness in the perfectly dichotomic Amerikkkan world), but at the same time hinders moving away from “race”, which is exactly what “racism”/white supremacy expects. It keeps the engine going all by itself. If we were massively saying (sorry for the bad word): “F.. your ideology”, they wouldn’t be able to withstand it.

    Peace (please check out my blog, I’m gonna stuff in the months to come, I had no time before)

    And Diariofanegress, thank you for allowing these conversations to happen. You don’t know how good it feels. So many (well, so far I haven’t actually met someone who thinks like me except my husband) “white” people just don’t get it. Because it’s meant and made so, so it goes on like that.

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